Okay, now what?

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 07/21/2016 at 11:52 • Filed to: None

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A few weeks ago, I posted about how my ‘03 Odyssey is overheating. So far, I have had the thermostat replaced and a new Honda radiator installed. It’s still overheating. When I’m driving, even in 102 degree heat, it’s fine. When I stop, like at a light or in traffic, it quickly starts to overheat. I can put the van into N and rev the engine above 2000 rpm and it cools back down. Anybody got any ideas?

Party-vi > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 11:55

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Overheating with no air pushing into the radiator - have you checked the fan clutch or fan relay? It might not be kicking on.

notsomethingstructural > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 11:56

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Bad radiator fan, extra juice from the alternator when you’re revving it is getting it up to speed.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 11:56

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Sounds like a bad fan, is it electric or viscous?

HammerheadFistpunch > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 11:56

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I assume its an electric fan, but it definitely sounds like an airflow problem. I had the same trouble with a fan clutch, it would stay cool on the freeway because of the forced air but around town in would heat up. Have someone diagnose the operation of the fan, if its kicking on when it should relative to the thermostat, and if its operating at full power. hmm, then again, if it IS an electric fan Im not sure why it would cool better with some revs except that more water is flowing...still my first guess would be the fan, then my second would be to look at making sure the cooling system is burped (new system, could have missed a spot in the heating circuit, etc)

DrScientist > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 11:59

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swapping parts (somewhat) randomly is not the best approach to solve this problem.

as others have said, sounds like, an issue with an electric fan not spinning enough when stopped at idle.

do you have a multimeter?

E90M3 > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 12:00

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Sounds like your van is turning it’s cooling system from a forced convection to a natural convection system at the lights. Probably a problem with the fan whether it’s the fan itself or the computer isn’t telling the fan to kick in while idling.

thebigbossyboss > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 12:05

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hit it with a hammer.

Hey...you didn’t say it had to be a good idea.

hahaha.

You’ve had bad car luck lately.

ttyymmnn > DrScientist 07/21/2016 at 12:10

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Radiator replacement was recommended by Honda service. Yes, I have a multimeter.

ttyymmnn > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 07/21/2016 at 12:12

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Viscous? New fans should have come with radiator, no? I have checked, though, and they are running.

ttyymmnn > notsomethingstructural 07/21/2016 at 12:13

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Wouldn't the fans have been replaced with the radiator?

ttyymmnn > Party-vi 07/21/2016 at 12:13

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I have seen the fans run. I suppose it could be intermittent.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 12:17

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If the electric fans are variable speed, it’s possible the temp sensor that governs when they come on and how hard is bad.

CalzoneGolem > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 12:22

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No.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 12:25

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If the fan’s working, water pump? Alternatively, how much stop-leak was in the old radiator?

EL_ULY > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 12:36

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again, if you have to rev the engine, the water pump is the only variable that would react to it engine speed.

Fans either work or don’t work. Everyone is saying fan.

Boxer_4 > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 12:37

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Are you running the AC when this is happening?

McMike > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 12:44

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Revving it to make it cooler makes it sounds like a water pump or low coolant/air pocket.

notsomethingstructural > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 12:44

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Did you pay for new fans?

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 12:58

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Viscous fan clutches come with some vehicles and no a new radiator doesn’t mean new fans. As the temp rises the fluid in the fan becomes more solid so the fan spins faster (it’s mounted on one of the pulleys driven by the serpentine belt). What is the status of your water pump? It might not be as efficient as it should be.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 12:58

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Water pump failing? Or cooling fan not kicking on? If the fam doesn't kick on, then I'd guess water pump

ttyymmnn > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 07/21/2016 at 13:03

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I don’t know the actual status of the water pump, beyond the fact that it seems to be working. If it didn’t work at all, wouldn’t the van always overheat?

ttyymmnn > notsomethingstructural 07/21/2016 at 13:03

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I don’t know. I assumed they came with the radiator.

ttyymmnn > McMike 07/21/2016 at 13:04

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The coolant was replaced again (I had it flushed and filled as an initial step in chasing the problem; it was cheaper than a radiator) when the radiator was replaced, and I can only assume that Honda did it right.

ttyymmnn > Boxer_4 07/21/2016 at 13:04

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Yes. This is Texas, after all. AC is a basic human right down here.

ttyymmnn > EL_ULY 07/21/2016 at 13:05

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When I first started looking into this problem, before the radiator was replaced, I ran the van in the driveway and both fans were running.

ttyymmnn > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 07/21/2016 at 13:06

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To my knowledge, there was no Stop Leak in the old radiator. I never added any, and there didn’t appear to be a coolant leak at any time.

Rykilla303 > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 13:06

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I’m thinking water pump. sounds like at idle it isn’t circulating water very well. If you’re over 100k and it’s the original, its good to do anyway.

You aren’t getting any check engine lights? A lean condition can also make a motor run hot.

ttyymmnn > CalzoneGolem 07/21/2016 at 13:06

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Great. assume = ass/u/me

ttyymmnn > Rykilla303 07/21/2016 at 13:10

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The van has 150k on it, and I’m pretty sure the wp/timing belt have been changed at least once. I’m not certain, though. No CELs. Fortunately, I have a proper engine temp gauge.

ttyymmnn > thebigbossyboss 07/21/2016 at 13:13

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I’m getting ready to do that. This is maddening. Yeah, definitely getting hit by bad luck lately. If that asshole drunk hadn’t totaled my Golf, I’d be in a much easier situation. Car juggling with my wife is a pain. I’d just buy a new-to-me van if we hadn’t just taken a new five-year note on the ‘13 Civic.

Sorry I haven’t replied to your email. One thing pushes out another in my brain, and there’s a lot going on these days.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 13:14

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Not necessarily, I’d say the symptoms you describe might be either the fans or water pump. Could be the stuck thermostat cause an old water pump to finally start making it’s way out.

EL_ULY > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 13:14

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bingo, fans work. A weak water pump doesn’t push coolant in idle conditions. Stop at a light, flow is down to nothing, car starts to get hot. Only when the engine is moving (driving or revving it at a light) will the pump try to push water throughout as best as it can.

notsomethingstructural > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 13:14

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Nah, OEM fans and shrouds are generally more money than the radiator. The good news is they should be able to pull them out without draining all the coolant, just have to bleed it again after. And let’s face it you were overdue for a coolant service anyways.

ttyymmnn > notsomethingstructural 07/21/2016 at 13:15

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I’m probably overdue for a lot of things on that van.

ttyymmnn > EL_ULY 07/21/2016 at 13:16

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Great, because I’m sure that’s a really cheap repair. Not. I’d probably be half way (or more) to a low-mileage engine replacement if I get that done.

E92M3 > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 13:19

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Are you sure the fan is operating correctly?

notsomethingstructural > EL_ULY 07/21/2016 at 13:27

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Not to say the water pump isn’t a good possibility, but “fans either work or don’t work” is definitely false.

JustAnotherG6 > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 13:32

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Do you know if the fan is working for sure? I was driving a buddy’s 90's Dodge GC in Dallas during rush hour. It would over heat until I realized one of the electric fans was not turning. I was able to wire it directly to the battery (not recommended but it worked to hobble us along till we could get it fixed correctly). As long as we remembered to disconnect the fan when we shut the thing off we were fine.

JustAnotherG6 > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 13:34

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It’s not the water pump that is the expense. It’s getting it out and a new one back into a transversely mounted V6 that is tucked as far back as possible that kills the wallet.

ttyymmnn > JustAnotherG6 07/21/2016 at 13:44

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Yeah, I know. It’s the labor that kills. I’ve had more than a few WPs replaced in my day. Not sure when the timing belt was last replaced, but it’s been probably 3 or 4 years at least.

ttyymmnn > JustAnotherG6 07/21/2016 at 13:45

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When I first started chasing this problem, I parked in the driveway after driving for a while, popped the hood, and the fans were indeed working.

ttyymmnn > E92M3 07/21/2016 at 13:45

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Back before the radiator was changed, I did check to make sure the fans were working. They were. Honda tech confirmed it.

JustAnotherG6 > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 13:54

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As I read further down I found you had already checked that...

JustAnotherG6 > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 13:57

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I have yet to go through that on a FWD vehicle. All my experiences were on early ‘80's Cutlass’s. RWD and all the room in the world.

EL_ULY > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 14:08

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Runs off the timing belt so the front cover has to be removed. Labor is whatever a timing belt is plus 1 or 1.5h more

ttyymmnn > EL_ULY 07/21/2016 at 14:15

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Yup. Been down that road before.

Boxer_4 > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 14:24

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From what I gather, a fairly common thing with Hondas of that age is that the condenser fan for the AC stops working. However, I believe you said somewhere in here that both fans appear to be working (the condenser fan is mounted next to the main cooling fan).

One thing to try is the next time it starts overheating is to kill the AC for a moment, to see if the temp goes down. The engine temp should drop down quite quickly if that is the cause.

Also, probably not a bad idea to check that there isn’t any debris or obstruction to the radiator or ac condenser (though, the shop that replaced the radiator should have checked that).

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 14:59

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Some of them have two speeds... But Honda prob’ly checked that. You might ask specifically about two-speed fan. A temp sensor could be the issue here...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 15:01

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No.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 15:01

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Not viscous in your application.

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 07/21/2016 at 15:06

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Mrs. Ttyymmnn is wondering why they didn't check every possibility before replacing the radiator. It's a fair question. The service writer, however, was certain that would fix it.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 15:19

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Saw your other replies below. I don’t think you’d have to assign Mrs. Ttyymmnn to that seat because she’s the sort of mommy who would prefer that seat.

They need to thoroughly check the cooling fan system and as the radiator didn’t fix the problem, the labor for that troubleshooting would be a sporting thing for them to cover. Multi-speed fans(?), temp sensors, et cetera.

Not sure if this engine has timing belt or timing chain.

Rule out a failed head gasket.

I don’t know how a water pump could fail partway, other than to leak water.

thebigbossyboss > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 17:46

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I hear that. I took my bad luck beating about two years ago.

What’s better than a break up? A break up a few days before you return to university and have no money because you go onto part time work! God that was tough.

You shall perservere my friend.

E92M3 > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 18:43

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Try to bleed the system. It could just have air in it. I doubt it’s the water pump, since it’s driven by the timing belt. They will either have a bearing failure (make noise), or start leaking. I guess it’s possible the impeller could be damaged. About the only way for that to happen is for the coolant to have froze over the winter, and the car being started. I would of expected the radiator to have froze, and crack the plastic end tanks first though.

ttyymmnn > E92M3 07/21/2016 at 20:03

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It hasn't frozen in Texas in years.

brianbrannon > ttyymmnn 07/21/2016 at 23:03

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Definitely bleed the system properly first. Temp needle going into the red overheating or just rising above normal?

ttyymmnn > brianbrannon 07/22/2016 at 01:24

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Almost into the red. Gauge covers 9:00 to 12:00 position, 10:00 is normal. Goes up to 11:00 or higher if I let it go.